Episode 55: 7 Million Using Cold Calling With Dorian Ciavarella

Dorian is a seasoned entrepreneur who previously scaled a company from scratch to a grand team of 130 and to 7 million ARR solely through cold calling.

Whilst scaling companies, he saw how difficult it was for sales people.

Sales people had to use so many solutions to extract data, perform outreach, calls & follow ups.

And doing so was costing sales teams time, and therefore money.

That’s how ZELIQ was born Рa AI-driven sales platform.

In today’s talk, we uncover:

  • The transformation of the end-to-end sales process through AI and automation.
  • Strategies to balance quantity with quality in sales prospecting.
  • How AI is personalizing sales outreach to maximize closing rates.

If you’re in curious about the cutting edge of sales tech, put this episode in your queue.

Remember to:

Follow Dorian on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-ciavarella

Visit Zeliq’s website:¬†https://www.zeliq.com/

Follow ‚ÄėMellonie Francis’ on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mellonie-francis

Transcript:

Mel Francis  
Hi, everyone, welcome back to innovative mind podcast. I am back I’ve actually got some new equipment I’m trying out. So let me know what you think about this sound quality. If you think the sound quality is good, so I’ve actually been gifted a Rode Microphone by my sister. So here it is. So I’m trying to use it because she’s gifted it to me. So yeah, let me know how the sound quality is, but I’m not using my typical headphones. I’m really curious how this sounds, so let me know. But anyhow, what I’ve got here is a guest here with me. Dorian Kev favela. Can you pronounce that for me? Dorian, did I say that?

Dorian Ciavarella  
Italian, Italian Riviera.

 

Mel Francis  
Okay, there you go, guys. And durian came across me because I had worked with his head of marketing before. And she approached me and said, you know, you really need to have a chat to Dorian. He’s doing some really cool things in sales and AI, with his SAS product. And with me right now, I’m really curious about sales, because I know all of you really care about how you’re going to lead generate and how you’re going to make revenue for your company. And I really want to make sure that, you know, we’re not only just covering content, creation, because making money is really, really important for a lot of us. I’m really curious to go and explore a bit more sales, SAS products out there and just sales, brilliant minds in sales and give you that information. So that’s why I’m really excited to have you, Dorian on the podcast. To hear Firstly, a little bit more about you, but also about the product. It was sounds really exciting that you’ve just recently launched and, yeah, and how you kind of thinking about the marketing landscape and why you built the product and what you know, and the some of the pain points that you were trying to achieve from releasing it. So welcome to my podcast. Thank you.

 

Mel Francis  
Well, why don’t we go back to the start before where we are at right now? Why don’t you tell me like a bit of a synopsis on like, Did you see something in the market that was missing before you built this sales? AI product? Selleck, is that right? Yes. into the market?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yes, but very happy to be with you today. Maloney happy to discuss about AI but says no, but myself. I decided to quit selling because I created a previous company I even see it was a few years ago, six years ago. And I worked a company from zero to 130 people in five years, does influencer marketing and required the leader worldwide. And was the platform matching between brands and influencers. And then we got the company from zero to 7 million of ARR in only for years. And then it was only with cold calling. And so only salespeople. And we were using different solution, like apple.io SalesLoft, outreach, and also some platforms to help us to get the data. But the problematic that we got, it’s when you are using approximately 10 solution for salespeople. You are losing time, it cost a lot. So it’s very expensive. So I found some problematic on the search tech solution. So I decided to launch mine solution. And I’m passionate about sales. So that’s why I decided to launch in January.

 

Mel Francis  
Cool. Okay. So before Zelich What was your journey? Take like? Had you’d already been a founder before, and you’d already launched products and you exited previously. So take what was what was the previous your experience? And what was the product that you were into? Yeah,

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
I’m 32 years old today I began entrepreneurship at 20 Approximately when I was students, and then I tried a lot of different businesses. I was selling some bells. I didn’t mean anything. And at 25 years old, I launched Ivan series, my co founder silver, and it’s the company that I told you just before that I grew up from zero to 100 Satya only five years and and then we raised money we raised 6.5 million if he was with investors and and we sold the company to USBC. So PSG we got to proposition and a month was higher a lot. So we decided to sell 100% of the company and this American VC build a group so they bought in only one year 10 companies and I Vinci was part of these 10 companies. And so imagine one year 550 people so it was a big shock of culture and different predictions to merit and decision to how to scale in the Open market but also in us. So I joined skippers, and I took the position as, as general manager of the open market. So I was managing Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Austria, Belgium, and in them. And after one year, I decided to left to quite because I didn’t have any handouts. So it was not mandatory for me to stay two or three years, as usual. And because most of the time when you sell your company, you need to stay three years with the owner, but I didn’t have this. So I decided to leave. And then I became a business angel, LPs. And after that, I was staying at home for four to five months. But you know, I was born because when you are at home at 30 years old, and you do nursing, you have your wife, your family, your friends, everyone walk every day, just watching Netflix, like everything. And after four months, I said, No, I cannot stay at home. I cannot be retired, I need to do something else. So that’s why I decided to launch a new project. And the XIX comes true. Thanks to to this time.

 

Mel Francis  
Oh, cool. So with Zelich, because you’ve already had so much experience with a previous company, was it? Did you? Did you feel comfortable with raising and exiting? Or was it still nerve racking? At the?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
No, it’s, yeah, it’s something very odd. Because, first of all, I didn’t want to send my previous company, I wanted to go to company to do a big scalar to hit the unicorn level. But then when I was doing my syllabi, I wanted to raise approximately between 10 to 20 million viewers. And at this time, only two weeks after doing my syllabi, so my Horchow I got the proposal, and I decided to serve because the amount was higher, maybe high, but I didn’t have any experience about exit. So it took me approximately nine months, nine months to work on it on the low pass, but it wasn’t English and French. So it was very complicated to understand 100% of the of the SPL of the contract to sell the company. So I took some advisor to help me some lawyer, some people who are working on the on the marriage, and who did previously some exits, and to advise me on how to do what I have to check in this contract. What is important so and what I have to negotiate, yes, of course, you can negotiate like, the amounts. So the valuation the valuation of the contract. Also the amounts, also, you have to see with the employees, what will happen if they keep it on place after the after buying the company, whatever. So no, I didn’t have in experiences on exit. So it was the first time but it was very interesting. And I learned a lot of thing.



That’s cool. Cool. And now where you are with your current zoic. So, you know, tell me about, you know, the journey of the product until date, like where, you know, how has the roadmap been from the beginning to now how’s that been different to your first startup?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
But everything, it’s more easy. Now, everything, everything is different? Because in October 2002, I decided to launch a new company. So I spoke with some friends. And I spoke with my previous CFO. And I asked him to join my project. So he told me yes, I’m going to join you in the new project. Because we worked two years together. I discussed with one of the investors that I that I went See, he was CTO and co founders of pumpkin, he did also an exit. And I asked both of them, do you want to join my new adventure? And this time, we’ll do the next unicorn on the stack. And they told me Okay, let’s go. So in January, we launched the project. And the first day that we launched the LEC, we raised 5 million if he was interested. So it’s one of the biggest proceeds in the in the open market because I raised three slides. So I didn’t have so much information even I didn’t know what I want to do in the SEC sec. I just told the investor that I want to do something on sales tech, but I didn’t tell them. What. So you raised in two weeks, five minutes. It was

 

Mel Francis  
very sight. It’s just like, yes. I just want to really highlight that, like on just in case you guys missed that on the accent but those three slides, 5 million. And I guess it’s the confidence from your previous startup and the experience that they’ve seen and how you operated that it became so easy, right?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yes, I went You are doing exit and you are second times entrepreneur. It’s more easy after two to discuss with investors and to get because you know the market, you know people you have a bit networks, you know how to develop your companies. And they knew that I was already managing 100 Such employees. So it’s less diversity

 

Mel Francis  
was a previous company also in sales tech.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
But no, it was even influencer marketing.

 

Mel Francis  
Influence Mike. Okay. So it was like agency stuff. Okay. Yeah. Different?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, it was totally different events it was a 500 key influencers on the platform. Yeah, it was much matching between brands and influencers and influencers in 100 countries. So we did some compare

 

Mel Francis  
Instagram influencers mostly would be the

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Snapchats, Facebook, YouTube, all of the social networks. So we were the biggest platform worldwide on influencers. So every month, we sent approximately 10,000 projects to influencers, to get some reviews, but was unpaid reviews, it means that, let’s say that you are influencers, we work together, I’m going to give you some loyal projects, you will do the communication, the publication on Instagram, but I’m not going to pay you, you will get the free product.

 

Mel Francis  
The product that you are promoting, you only get back to the product has to be good enough for the influencer to feel like they want that.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yes. It was not an urgency. It was a SaaS platform.

 

Mel Francis  
Yeah, yeah, that matched the matched people. Okay, got it. Cool, quite clever. quite clever. So now you’re doing sales tech. So they don’t know if you really have the experience in sales, tech, but they’re confident that he’s done it before as an entrepreneur, you’ll figure it out.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
I didn’t have experience in sales tech, but I had experience in sales. Because as I was managing 40 sales in my previous companies, I did, I did 25 30% of the 7 million of AF outside of friends. So they knew that I know how to manage salespeople, even outside of France. And then when company when skippers bout me, I was managing the European market of Schiphol, so 550 people in the group, and then I was managing sales, customer success. So that’s why I good experiences. Also.

 

Mel Francis  
What is the secret in sales? In your opinion, when you’re managing? managing it? What did you think, you know, is it sort of

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
challenges and says you have to become a living?

 

Mel Francis  
So when you hire a salesperson, right? What do you how? What are you looking for? What questions are you asking? And then you know, how are you seeing if they’re the right fit?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, first of all, I’m going to ask them some questions about my project. What do you understand about my projects, I’m going to ask you to sell my project. So let’s say that we are in interview you want to join the League? I’m going to ask you, Melanie, can you? Can you pitch me Zelich? What is it for you? So I’m going to see if you will do a discovery. I’m going to see what kind of question you are going to ask me, I’m going to see about how you can convince me there is some competitor that I’m discussing with them. And then I’m going to ask you a question about your ambition. How do you see yourself in the next five years? Do you want to be expected to you want to be managers? What’s your plan? And why if Zelich decide to take you why you will be the best my team? Let’s say that I have 10 sales in my team, you will be the 11 Why you You will be the top one why you will we will be the top performer? What what will make the difference between you and the rest of my team? So it’s this kind of question that I’m asking to the saints. And also I want that says, we’ll be passionate about my projects. If you join me, I want them to love the products that we sell. It’s something important for me because if you don’t like it, you will not want to sell the product or maybe 12 months and after that you will want to change the company. But it’s this kind of question that I’m asking during the during the interview. But as I’m passionate about sales, it’s it’s something quite easy for me because I love what I’m doing right now. It’s excellent.

 

Mel Francis
That’s excellent. Yeah, that’s really good to know. So how you kind of interview so now Zelie is here. What is it that is so different about this product? Can you talk to me about this product that you’re so passionate about and what it can do? And

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
yes, it’s beautiful SDR sales development representative BGF says ups, have ups can execute you Head of Sales as a first year. So what we do with zelican. First of all, when you want to do prospection, when you want to prospect clients, you need data. So, the first thing that we are going to do is to give you the data that you need. So, we will give you the leads automatically, depending on your ICP. So let’s say for example, you want to target cmo automatically, the AI will give you every week, every month, every year some leads with the good data. So what is data, it will be the good number, the right number, it will be email, the verification, it will be also information on line LinkedIn profile, it will be like cottagey on the cons, how you have to target these people, then when you have the data, we will help you to prospect, so on multichannel so you we will help you to use LinkedIn automation, email automation, we second see cold call automation, automatically tasks that you will create on the platform. And then the liquid LP also to manage the motivation of the sales with some leaderboard. So what we do we give you leads, we enrich the lead, and then you can prospect on the platform on your channel. And if you want to compare the league to some competitors, you will find Apolo that IO says loved and I will teach so is the main competitor that we have today on the market. And the difference that we have Zelich can do everything. So data prescription and says enablement.

 

Mel Francis  

When you talk about the strategy, it says gives you some sales strategy. Are you saying it gives you some sort of scripts? Yeah, it’s a strategy it’s giving?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, let’s say that I need to target you, your prospect list. A result I’m going to have like you better have you do do’s and don’ts to contact you, the AAA, I will LP also to to give you information on new and to create like an icebreaker. With the good message, I will know also your buying intent, I’m going to know if you change the job in the in the in the past months. So I’m going to have an overview of your profile about your life, but what you did in your previous experiences, and then the AI will create like an automatic message to contact you and to increase the chance to get feedback from you.

 

Mel Francis  
Wow. That’s really interesting. Do you think then the future that we have with AI? Because you’re saying it’s going to help? And how, I guess How perfect is it? Like? How much edit Would you still have to do after it’s giving you strategy and advice? Like, are we at 80% 70% that the script is going to match? Or you know, sometimes it just missed the mark, because we’re not sophisticated enough in that AI strategy

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
about the test that you already did it 90 persons?

 

Mel Francis  
Wow. It’s nice, because you know, like with sales, prospecting, you have to be really authentic and unique to that profile, you know, you just can’t go in and say the same shit to the same people sometimes because you got to actually, like, you know, really be authentic. And that’s the differentiator. So are you saying that Selleck is allowing you to be authentic through the AI tool? Because it’s actually going to tell you what to do with this particular profile? Based on the information it’s pulling?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yes, yes, it’s what we do is the pumps, we are working on it with the 11 developers that we have. And the main target that I have, it’s you don’t need any human interaction, it’s the AI will automatically define what you have to tell to the people, when you have to create a new task and to contact the people, the person again, everything needs to be automatically. So the things that the sales will only focus after that on the closing part. But the prospection will be managed by the AI, and also will help the Xia to do this. Even sometimes, for example, when you get some message on LinkedIn or by email or whatever. salespeople do some mistake on autograph. And this is complicated because when you read an email and you see two mistakes, you don’t want to reply back to this person. So Angelique will help also in this path to avoid some mistake when you are contacting some percent.

 

Mel Francis  
Sometimes a mistake is actually nice because you’re like, at least I know this person’s a human on the other side.

 

Mel Francis  
Because Because because people are really kind of sometimes worried like, Oh, it’s just so robotic. So sometimes you see it and you go, Oh, well at least this person sat there and wrote themselves. Okay, do you see the future of Selleck to be with the AI can actually also do the phone call for you and sound like a A person?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, it’s a good question. I am working on division of Zurich, what I told my team. Previously, I want that the AI will create a copy that for the saints, it’s mean that you don’t need anymore to have like your head of sales, you don’t need anymore to have managers, you will get some advice automatically to thanks to AI. So let’s say that we have a team of 10 sales. Most of the time, the sales use different kinds of prescription. So we don’t have the same approach. And so the AI will analyze which of the says the best, and we’ll make some some device automatically. So then when you go the morning, you open the leak, and you do the task automatically. You know what you have to do, how many cones how many miles when you have to contact back this person? How many days you need to wait, what you have to change in the email, and then you will know how to be the best of your team, thanks to AI. So it’s the vision that I have to create a cookie

 

Mel Francis  
cutter? Does it tell you? Which channel to pick first? Like should I pick LinkedIn? Or should I just pick email? Or should I pick up a call? Like? How do I distinguish when I am going for someone? And I’m you know approaching someone like which mixture of channel in which one to go first, which one to go second? What’s your advice on that, and how have you structured that,

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
the best thing is, first of all, you will manage seconds, you may 2. So let’s say that you are going to send 100 emails per day to manage your leads, then I’m sending to you an email, you will open it, maybe you will, you will click on the link. And then when you click, it will give me your task. And with this task, I’m going to call you. So then I’m going to call you if you don’t don’t sweat, I will create a new task again tomorrow to call you back. And for two weeks, every day I will try to call you. And then if you don’t want to swear to me for two weeks, then I will. So I will bet again your contact in CRM and I will start to contact you. But your contact will be in my task during two weeks. So the best thing firstly can see email, then you can the person when you click on the link or you open an email, then you try during two weeks, then you stopped and at the same time you put some seconds on LinkedIn automatically also to send you some data some document about your market some benchmark. Then what is important is when you contact someone, you need to personalize your message to show to the person that you understand the market. And if you give them some contents, it’s more easy after to contact the person if I’m only contacting you and telling you okay Madani I’m looking at the league maybe you will be interested interesting to to use our platform so let’s discuss you will tell me no but if I tell you Okay, at this you sector of activities is this I understood your needs your pain, what they can do for you with this, you can check this use case what I do is company similar to yours. So let’s discuss so it’s better because you can see that I took more time to understand what you are doing. I discuss about your pain and then I show you how I can resolve your pain. So this is important so

 

Mel Francis  
cool. What are some of the best sales strategies that you have seen? That has been you know developed for a company like that you’re like wow, that is you know, really, really clever. And that’s really really smart.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
About SDM contain secretive about closing about

 

Mel Francis  
about prospecting, I guess

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
but prospecting. I even see what we did. I had 25. So my previous companies are yet 25 says they look more representative split in the between three countries, France, Spain and Germany. And what we did, it’s each of these SDF on the 25 need to do 100 action per day. What is election could be an email, a cold call a LinkedIn message, but you have to do 100 action per day. Why? Because on 100 action per day, you will get approximately one to three meetings per day booked. So then we manage, manage SGF by the data. So what I was looking for, it’s only data and to see the number of interaction of action. Then what we did also it’s requested some challenges. But some Bynum I don’t know if I can say that in English, but it’s like one SGF when you connect together for two weeks, and I bet a challenge for both of them. What we did also it was every Friday, we did some pitch, and then we put some music like it was Champions League music, and then we celebrate what we want the number of putting books. We put also the best code that we did front of, of the SDR team that everyone can hear what we did and why we got this when we got this meeting booked. What we did also that it was very interesting for us, we added a nice onboarding. So to onboard an SDR, most of the time company says it took one month, but I even see took us seven days. So only one week, because it was intense. So we create a big onboarding with 100 slides to explain what’s the whole of SGA what you need to do, how you can get the meeting booked, and we put them on. So some, some previews like culcairn, that we that we record to them that it’s more easy to understand why they have to do and what they don’t have to do. And so it just kind of seemed to help us to reach our target of 7 million of ARR. Only with cold calling because it was 90% of the 7 million elf. Thanks to.

 

Mel Francis  
Okay. Yeah, I think I think it’s super cool that you have really amazing onboarding, I think that is a secret to really get your sales up and running. And I love the 100 interactions. How were you measuring the 100 interactions?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, there are some tools like eco experts connection to Gmail. And but it’s true that sometimes it’s complicated, because they had to do manually. So that’s why I decided to create these kinds of features so that it’s more easy for the managers to understand how many task people are doing. But yes, we were using some tools to see and sometimes there’s an Excel and, and the people were doing manually. But it was the objective. And if people didn’t get the one on read, we were not up here. But but the day is something it’s something that we were pushing.

 

Mel Francis  
Do you think with salespeople, it’s really important to give them a volume number, and what they have to reach sort of every day like to be otherwise they can get kind of lazy and not do enough? Like, because sometimes what we say is you need to land this many appointments, but we don’t show them like what are they acting like we’re not measuring? Are they doing the activities? To reach that? You know what I mean? So

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
it’s a good question. It’s true that sometimes we speak about quantitative and qualitative. Why why I put this one on task per day. Why? Because it’s true that the most important thing is to get the meeting booked. So I can maybe only give them like an objective of three meetings books per day. But let’s say that you are getting three meetings booked per day with 50 action is mean, that is one of your action, you can get six meeting, meeting booked. So that’s why you my philosophy, it was to give an overview about the number of meeting booked, of course, but also to say, okay, you can go up to this meeting booked because you didn’t do enough action. So we can go up. So we bet like, commission plan, a nice commission plan. So you can people your salary, if you get 100% of the objective. So every month and you are paying every month, the commission plan. So it’s something that can help also the SDR team to increase the volume of contacts, and to get better results. Because it’s what you what we have to keep in mind, it’s difficult to work, you know, to do some 100 cold calling per day, yes. And 99% of the people will tell you not, I’m not in the rest of you, but what you are doing, it’s a difficult job. And the average time that you are doing this, at this position, it will be between six months and 12 months. So it’s not the job that you you will keep a long term. So that’s why it’s important to motivate people to help them to grow up also, and maybe to keep them to be account executive just later.

 

Mel Francis  
Right? It’s tough. Is it because it’s so tough that we lose like people don’t want to do it long term because it’s so mentally draining.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  

Yes. Yes, it is. It’s did you try did you do some coding in your past?

 

Mel Francis  
I found that it’s not what I love doing because I find it grueling. Like you have to be so persistent. You know, it’s like also, I guess you have to have a hunger for the win. But if you’re not winning, and it’s like, it can really bring you down. I remember my first cold center job and they sat us down and they said, you know, read this script from the thing and I and I was doing it. I found it really, you know, tough because it was like I’m sitting in this room with all these other people and they’re just calling and I’m just calling and no, I don’t remember really being be able to be creative, you know, in it either because it’s not like I’m designing anything. It’s like, read this out do this. And it was, it was tough was mentally difficult. Yeah, there’s no break, you have to keep you have to hit this. You have to continue to do it. Like you’re all these things of monitoring, you know, you’re like, it’s like you’re on on those heart. things. Like everything’s connected to you and they know what you’re doing. Like how much you break down? How many times you didn’t call, you know, I just felt like I was being monitored. 24/7.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Okay. But yeah, it is difficult. It’s true. I advise people want to hire SDR to do the job by yourself before hiring these kind of people. Because if you want to manage you need to understand how difficult it is. And yes, for me, it wasn’t the most difficult job in terms of startup scalar. But you have come to appreciate on your folder, that will never stopped.

 

Mel Francis  

Yeah, no, it’s a it’s definitely your to write a tough, tough gig. So that’s why I think you’re right, so you know that you’ve only got six to 12 months. And this is like learning things proving yourself out. And then you have to have a really great onboarding from what I picked up, because you will have to continue to onboard BDRs and then SDRs continuously, because it’s such a tough, tough gig to constantly perform and deliver. But this commission structures that you discussed, are really, really important to continue that longevity of that otherwise, you’ll just lose that much more faster. And so the training will go to waste.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
But you can add some challenge. For example, sometimes what we did, if you are reaching the objective, during the month, I’m going to buy you like an iPhone or something like that. Whatever the gifts, but you have to show them that you put something face to the competition, and to do.

 

Mel Francis  
So another angle that I’ve come across that I’ve met people, they said that instead of going for quantity, they really want to do quality based outreach, instead of like hitting 100, they want someone to do 10, but 10, very strong, prospecting, especially when it’s like larger accounts, you know, and they really want them to think about it and put their heart and soul into it. What do you think about that approach? Because you know, you get fear of missing out in that approach. But what if none of these, and you’re taking higher risk on that? In one way, but I guess some people will leave, don’t spray and pray like, you know, really, just do less, but be really effective. And just, you know, hit home really, really well. But draft something really unique. And take your time, what do you think about that way of selling?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, but quality over quantity of a porch

 

Mel Francis  
quality, like just not quantity of 100. But instead they have to only do 10, for example that day, but really do it super super well. It’s a totally different

 

Dorian Ciavarella  

way. For me, you can do both.

 

Mel Francis  
It’s not the quality and quantity Yes, it’s

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
not because you are doing quantity that you cannot do quality tends not enough, because you don’t need 10 or 15 minutes to prepare the coil. So, for example, Zelich, you can manage both, because you can manage quantity, thanks to automation, but you can manage quality, because when you go on the leak, you will see the information on the behavior of the person. The job change, the bank intends the personality, the icebreaker. So we create automatically everything for you that you don’t need to go on LinkedIn on Google to check the website to check CrunchBase or whatever everything will be in the same page and intensive on you understand 100% of the profile that you are going to click on. So then when you have all of the information at the same time at the same place, you don’t miss time. So you can have quantity and quality but for me to do anything concrete per day of 10 tasks. It’s not enough you can not get your objective even if you’re targeting like silhouette of big companies, or even see at the past. The ICP that I had, it was still a well a big company like L’Oreal Estee Lauder, Carrefour, Amazon and in terms that I had a great meeting with one of production per day with silhouette at L’Oreal. Yeah, got it. So that’s why for me, you can really do both, but you have to do quality. If you if you don’t personalize your app, your approach to cold call or the way to contact you will not get your your husband’s

 

Mel Francis  
yeah oh really, really appreciate that insight and but their knowledge? How are you thinking about marketing? Now, you know, I know that you’ve got this outbound approach and you know, like, you know, you’ve got an outreach to do it. What about the whole concept of content marketing? Where do you see that fit in and why it’s even important when you know how to get sales by outbound.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
It’s more data, we know, it’s something very important because as I say, I was doing influencer marketing, so I was managing contents for influencers. So I can tell you today that on b2c, and even on b2b, content marketing, it’s mandatory, you have to do it, you must to do content marketing. So let’s say that for a b2b company, who wants to launch a new services or new projects, so if you are a little bit famous, if people check your LinkedIn posts, if people like what you are doing in terms of communication, it’s more easier to sell your solution, even for the sales. Because if sales, publish some content every day, about sales, tech about what you are doing, about why they can help them, if you show to people that you are experts, after when you will contact them to sell a solution, it’s more easy to sell, because you will be seen as an expense. So that’s why whatever the job that you are doing whatever the services, you need to do some contents and everyday is on LinkedIn, maybe on Twitter, it could be on YouTube. Also, sometimes depending on the of the services, the product that you are, you’re going to sell, but you have to be present, people need to know you to understand what you are doing. So that’s why even me, for example, at Zelich, I asked my team every day to do some content on LinkedIn, to create some article I want that they have, they have to be seen as an expert, but not only for sales, for finance for tech people, we need to do some webinar, we need to speak about what we are doing. And then when you will think about Safetech, you will think about Zelich because you saw us on video on social network.

 

Mel Francis  
Yeah, I think the point was that the conversion is way easier. And the conversion cycle is way shorter, if you have brand behind you, and you are positioned as like, oh, they are an expert, they appear and they really resonate with me what they’re saying.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yeah, when we learn Zelich, so it was two months ago for the beta version. In only one week, we got 1000 companies registered on the platform to use the beta version of Zurich. And this 1000 companies that we got, it was only with to post that I did on LinkedIn. And I reach I put him at least 300,000 people 350,000 people, and thanks to that, we got this 1000 companies who register on the platform. So it’s been a while it’s powerful to today to do the contents.

 

Mel Francis  
Exactly. And that’s from someone that is an expert in sales outreach, and is building assess products. So you know, even someone that is from that expert, and they know they can get it some other way they see the power in inbound marketing is right there, it’s all you need to do is just put some really great content that’s going to add value for someone. And whether that is bringing it in or not. You have to find it until it brings it in and be present and be top of mind. And I think that’s the real winning things, you do that and then you do press and then you do outreach on top, you’re gonna get way better conversion than if you had no brand. Because when I’ve seen people go out and just do outreach, and they have no presence, they’re really going to find that conversion really tough because people are gonna go look at them somewhere someplace, and it’s just not going to land that the same way that like who the hell are you you’re just another person like. So the proof of the expertise is in social media on your website, and linking everything up is super important. Do

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
and also when you are doing some content and people will interact with you, it will help also to increase the reach. But one of my friends for example, he wrote me a message just yesterday. He’s doing like a fundraising to buy a castle and to manage it and everything. And he told me that only with one post. He wanted to raise 500k But he’s at 850k just with one post. And so it’s incredible because when people see your post, see interaction, some motivation, they want to follow up and to be part of the project. And so

 

Mel Francis  
yeah, it’s super powerful, isn’t it? It’s super powerful. So, to wrap up, what about you as a CEO of Selling? Like, where do you see the importance of you playing content versus the company taking over and you not having to, you know, any more participate in personal branding, and positioning yourself as an expert. Like, I feel like when a company’s new, the CEO is doing a lot, they’re doing a lot of stamping that tried to make a lot of noise to help set the culture that tone. But, you know, I think at some point, you also want to pass, you know, the baton right to others, and you want to create that. So do you see like, you know, yourself right now, in the earliest stages, it’s more important than ever to use your personal authority, because you’re still building that culture and who those people will be that you pass the baton to? Or do you see that? It’s something that you’ll do for the, you know, the lifetime of this, this position that you’re in?

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Yes. It’s a good question. I think my personal branding will help the company for the next few years for the series A and the syllabi, and then when the company will be more structured, when we will be more than 500 people, 700 people on the company, I will be less useful in terms of communication. So for me, the pool of the contents and the personal branding will work for precede seed three ACB. And then it will not work anymore as at the past. So that’s what I’m doing right now. 100% of my energy I put on communication, on content, blog, article, webinar, podcast, everything. Yeah, speak about, about me about my previous experience about Zurich. But yes, I see myself today, like an ambassador also physique. It’s something important I have to show that I expect and what I’m doing. And also I have to show to people that Zelich will be a success, thanks to the link, because we are using the link internally to show how to do sales. So it’s something important that I have to pitch to tell the people that we get this success tank to Derek, so you can do the same result. It’s what I want to communicate today. But since I’m going to do this in the next three, four years, and then little bit less, and I think the team will take the holy, I don’t know if I can say whether you can, but we’ll follow up the dispersion of communication after me.

 

Mel Francis  
Yeah. And what do you find the toughest thing with content creating for yourself is

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
first of all, what you can do, you can take someone a silhouette, and as someone who will help you to create some content, of course, you have to hit it, you have to manage it, you have maybe to do some modification on the post. But you can have some people from your marketing team who will lead us to create some content. The most difficult path is to find the way to do your content. Because when you go on LinkedIn, you see so many people who do content, but how you will be different, what kind of strategy you have, to who you want to target. And so you have to define before doing content, your strategy, and who will be YCP your clients, what we intended them to check and to hit how you create a community, how people want to follow all of the posts that you are doing, how many posts you have to do per week, on which subset social network. So define your studied something very complicated. And then after for the contents, you can check blood from competitors, you can check blood from expect, you can take ask AI also to give you some some effort, but the market today some numbers. So it’s not complicated, I think to to find information, to modify the information and to publish the most difficult platform it to find your strategy.

 

Mel Francis  
Yeah, definitely finding the strategy while you’re also in your head, right. And you’re like, it’s a lot for you. And you have to unpack it. But once you watch it will be. Yeah, yeah. What do you want to do with this? And initially, I think the best secret kept is you want to actually build followership and people want to actually digest your content. You know, you have to be in a position where you want to give back a lot so you can position yourself as an expert. If you’re thinking you’re going in there to take straightaway from day one. That’s when people go wrong.

 

Mel Francis  
Well, Dorian, this has been a real pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. And I think you know, the way you think about sales, I think has been really enlightening and has given me so much knowledge about you know how important And both quantity and quality is and how content is still at the base of how you know at the base of this whole outreach and how it helps you convert. So thank you for sharing your journey with us and your thought leadership on sales. And I’m really curious now to go check out sell IQ and give it a go and see how it delivers. I can, I can’t wait to go try it out and see how, you know, an AI generated sales, prospecting enrichment, and all the rest of it really work. So I will give you that feedback once I get my hands on it.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Thank you, thank you very much up that’s my French accent would be okay for people who will listen as I said, but if you need anything concerning sales, don’t hesitate to ask me. I’m passionate. If I can help you it will be a pleasure. And very nice what you are doing with the podcast. Congrats for that. And I’d be happy to discuss with you today.

 

Mel Francis  
Thank you so much, Dorian, and both of our LinkedIn and followers will be on the description guys. So go and hit that follow for Dorian if you want more sales tips and what he’s up to.

 

Dorian Ciavarella  
Thank you, bye.

 

Mel Francis  
You’re listening to innovative minds.

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